The Barflies Message Board

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fruits of investigation - posted by Norma Desmond at 05/24 09:48AM Guys, I want to gratefully thank SS for calling New York and asking for clarity on the issue of attacks/disruptive behavior in meetings and its relationship to the common welfare of to the group. I especially want to note this paragraph from her post to the "weathering the storm" thread: "If the attacks or disruptive behavior arise repeatedly from one individual, often an old timer or a home group member can approach that person and ask if the group can better serve that person, or if there is a problem. If the behavior continues, as a last resort, groups have asked a person to temporarily leave the meeting until the behavior changes- common welfare must come first. She said this is a last resort, and is not equivalent with kicking someone out of a meeting permanently or out of AA, as that is a violation of traditions. Just until the disruptive behavior changes." This weekend, my home group met to discuss this issue. We agreed that as a group, we have a responsibility to protect our meeting as a safe place where drunks can bring their problems -- and that means we must act responsibly to address any threats to this safety. We've agreed that we must take time to consider what those threats to the common welfare look like and sound like -- and then determine how we will address them as a group. As this situation has unfolded, one of the interesting things I've learned from a careful reading the First Tradition is that it is very similar to the first step in that it has two parts. The first part of the text on Tradition One protects our less grounded and/or more unorthodox members from undue pressure to 'straighten up and fly right.' It defends their right to be out of step with the mainstream. But to stop reading right there is to miss the point. The bulk of the tradition goes to great length to emphazise the grave danger to the group that occurs if someone is allowed to behave in a disruptive/aggressive manner during a meeting. We recently witnessed this problem and its solution crop up on the Barflies message board. One individual consitently made sarcastic posts that resulted in group distress. Congratuations to the home group, which addressed the theat to our common welfare by hammering out a message board monitoring policy. If the group had not taken this responsible action, our more balanced members would have quietly left the board. One person CAN destroy a group. And without the group, there is no recovery for anyone. This was a beautiful illustration of the First Tradition in action. Norma

re: fruits of investigation - posted by Wade L on 05/24 10:24PM The group I go to is currently having problems. There are several people who view cussing to be as something that should not happen at a meeting. The meeting meets at a club house and the club house has passed a rule that there should be no cussing. However there are several people who continue to use profanity. The groups try to respect the wishes of the club, but there is no formal group conscious on the matter as of yet. There has been a lot of conflict in meetings, very close to the point of throwing fist. The man with twenty years of sobriety has grown to a point of spiritual superiority in which he is above the use of foul language and doesn't want to be submitted to it. The offender, who also has long term sobriety rebels at the thought that someone is trying to impose his sense of morality upon everyone else. I have always been very wary of the person who demands that others act according to there definition of what is right, or to follow there morals. If I make rules that everyone should act like a Christian, then what of my Buddhist friends who do not view actions as being right or wrong. If it is not OK for some one to say f%#k, but OK to say GD, then what of my Jewish friends (who find that more offensive). When someone comes out and says that if you don't act the way that I say then you are not spiritual, then that is the epitome of pride and narcissism. I begin to think they have lost sight of where they came from, and who and what they really are. All humility is lost and the attitude that they can become judge, jury and executioner of AA begins to prevail. The first tradition states that everyone has the right to think and act in the manner they seem fit. The group is not the deliverer of discipline, but the requirement to be of service and to help others becomes the great guillotine. For if the individual fails to work the steps, he will perish. I have been battling this self righteousness for a long time in AA, and often I get weary. The sick man comes, finds the HP and changes, he doesn't change, then finds the HP and then comes to AA. So I am going to let the sick be sick. I won't throw stones at them, if anything I will even try to take some for them. That is what I get weary of, taking the hits. It's hard to go against the grain for the sick man or woman. To love them with no expectation, (even to change). This is not meant to be a response to your post Norma Desmond, but really a problem I have been struggling with for a while. It is hard for me to be strong in my convictions when I am a thin reed trying not to break in a hurricane. May peace go with you always

re: fruits of investigation - posted by PM on 05/27 07:20PM I was reading some non-AA approved literature the other morning and came across a line which reminded me of this string of posts... it said "Who are you to pass judgement on someone else's servant?" and a little further along it says "Resolve never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother." We come to AA looking for freedom from alcohol and find the answers in our various pathways toward reliance on and service to the HP. We each serve in our own way and with varying zeal. Sometimes that service is to accept others in their defectiveness so that they can come and find their way. If we do not allow them their defects and effectively run them off then we have become the stumbling block to their recovery - not the aid at all. The big book calls the work of helping others walk again an 'experience you must not miss,' and yet we would through intolerance so quickly turn them away. Personally I could care less about cursing though I do not do a great deal of it. I also am quick to go sit with a bunch of smokers even though I'm over the habitI! I tend to feel that you're only offended if you're offended, meaning that some people attach hideous meaning to certain words and it is a problem they should be responsible for. Sticks and stones! Much like 'political correctness' the very idea that I'm responsible for your reaction to something I didn't mean to insinuate seems to run contrary to everything AA teaches me. Especially where it talks in the 10th step about the trouble being with me whenever I'm disturbed. I hope they loosen up for your sake.

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While we hope that all our guests share their experience as it relates to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, we remind everyone that the contents of these message strings are strictly personal opinions of the authors. When in doubt about the nature of statements made please consult the Big Book and other AA reference materials... our motto: "If its not in the book, it doesn't count." Thank you all for sharing.