The Barflies Message Board

Welcome to the Barflies Group Message Board. We encourage all alcoholics to share their experience, strength and hope in a way that is conducive to AA’s primary purpose, which is to stay sober and help other alcoholics achieve sobriety.

PLEASE NOTICE: the Barflies Group maintains the right to block disruptive users and delete posts/replies that do not support our primary purpose as stated above or that we deem harmful to alcoholics. We truly want this board to be yet one more way for alcoholics to help one another, and we want it to be a safe place to go, should the need arise. With that said, we will do all we possibly can to maintain the integrity of the board.

[ Signup for the Board | Edit Your Account | Homegroup Member Login | Recover Passwords ]

23 members are currently monitoring the board. | Your IP address: 38.107.191.116

Weathering the Storm - posted by PM at 05/16 05:41PM What do you do? What do you say? How do you open an AA meeting and try to make drunks comfortable and deal with the insufferable, irresponsible attacks at the same time? We tolerate the crazy people who rant in paranoid fashion, we stomach the empty blather of so many that are loathe to investigate, and we have endless patience for the newbies that want to participate but think they're supposed to have the answers... but what about the outright attacks? I hear it happened again last night. That one of our fellowship was insulted for having defects and told to go seek outside help by a 'member' with roughly 20 years in the rooms - a member who also insisted that the drug-addict in the room had a license to participate simply because they recanted their drug-addict introduction when questioned and said 'oh, yea, I'm an alcoholic,' as if that is some kind of loophole in the 3rd tradition which clearly states "A.A. is really saying to every serious drinker, "You are an A.A. member if you say so." ...but wait - did you see the part about being a 'serious drinker?' We put our money where our mouths are - we start meetings, we try to preserve the principles of AA, we work hard to create an atmosphere of care and concern, we share our defects... and we continuously get attacked by ignorant, self-appointed wards of the implied 12-step community who feel empowered by the courts, treatment centers and public misconceptions to tell us how we should be conducting ourselves. They don't come for help or to be a part of what we're doing; but instead to tell us to 'get with the times' or that 'it's all the same' or about how much they've learned since AA was started or some other no-account opinion. We don't want to waste the meeting time arguing; and newcomers, already smitten with paralyzing anxiety, look out at these hotspots of hostility and it shuts 'em down. So what do we do about these guys???

re: Weathering the Storm - posted by Wade L on 05/16 07:22PM Either God is everything or he is nothing, and either AA works or it doesn't. I have to remember that I am powerless over alcohol. Not just the alcoholism in my life, but also in others lives as well. My responsibility is to bring the AA message, and with prayer and hope then maybe when the time is right when someone is in desperate need and open minded then that little spark of the HP may reach that person. If someone is bringing crap to the meeting then they are going to be thought of as an idiot and are not going to be of any use. If people are attracted to their message then they will probably not be attracted to what you have to offer. I have to trust that God is everything and that AA works, but I must ensure that the message is there. Lay what you have out on the table and see who picks it up. So in dealing with the arrogant, ignorant, self righteous, prideful, and corrupted I have to remember that I can't see something in others unless I have it inside myself. Then maybe I can seek forgiveness and be a channel for the real healing grace. Now if someone is disrupting the meeting, then it is the responsibility of the group to have a place that help is available. Oh yes, I have discovered that God is everything and AA does work. Trust in them Peace

re: Weathering the Storm - posted by kah on 05/17 06:28AM This post stayed with me all evening. I too heard what happened Saturday night and as usual, find it incredibly disturbing. Yet, what I came up with is that maybe we are asking the wrong question. Instead of "what can we do about them?" perhaps the question should be "what can we do about us?" This is what kept going over and over in my head last night, that whenever I am disturbed, there is something wrong with me. My homegroup meeting is going through tough growing pains. We lost 6 members in less than 1 year for various reasons, 5 of whom were men. Someone stated to me yesterday that when there are more male homegroup members it seems as though that keeps the crazies in check to some degree. I don't know if it does or not, but it is what it is. We have the misfortune of meeting on a Saturday night when you attract as many people looking to hook up or hang out as you do who are really looking for a meeting. There has been terrific angst the past couple of months and lots of talk about what to do about "them?". Truthfully, I don't know that I can do anything about them. Can we intervene if a member is being personally attacked? Of course we can. I have been attacked and have stood up for who was being attacked. But as far as all the crazies that we end up with, all I can really do is share my experience, strength and hope and I can pray that whoever needs to hear it, does so. I can try to get there more regularly. I can stick my hand out to the newcomer. What I can't do is afford a resentment towards AA. That will kill me faster than any screwed up person in a meeting ever will. I can see what I can bring, what do I have to offer? I can practice principles. I can stop rehashing every single thing that went wrong and try to find what went right. I can keep asking myself "what can I do about me?". That is where my hope lies, that I can get better. Trying to figure out what to do about "them" is futile and exhausting and has led to nothing but division in AA. Do I wish they would just go away? Of course I do, but since that does not seem to be happening, I can do my part to try and support the meeting and trust what it says at the end of the 1st tradition, that AA will be here so long as God intends it to be.

re: Weathering the Storm - posted by Norma Desmond on 05/17 03:50PM Hey Guys, I have a question: How can a group in any good conscience encourage drunks to share their problems and then allow for a vicious, personal attack on the unwitting participant who takes them at their word and reveals a problem? Unless the group is recklessly indifferent to the responsibilities that come with a dedicated format -- they can't and they won't. This is a First Tradition violation. Tolerating a violent, unbalanced personal attack on someone with the courage and grace to be open and sincere destroys trust and safety for the person attacked and for everyone at the meeting. In addition, it makes a lie out of the very foundation of the group format -- that this is a safe place for drunks to come and be honest about their problems. Instead of being a safe haven from bullies and pillheads and slogan-slingers and drug addicts and phonies that newcomers so often encounter, allowing First Tradition violations at a dedicated meeting turns the group into a bad parent who says, "Jump...you can trust me!" and then steps aside when the child takes a leap of faith. A group with a dedicated format does tolerate the traditions violations that are so characteristic of free-for-all, no-active-home-group, crazies-run-the-show meetings -- without becoming one of them. Again -- my question: can a group in any good conscience ever again read from a format that invites drunks to be open and share their problems because this meeting is a safe place for them to be honest, and then watch that person to be viciously attacked? I have confidence that Saturday's incident was an unexpected blind-side assault on the group's very reason for existing, and that it will be addressed in a way that is responsible to their stated convictions. Don't be afraid of the Traditions. Norma

re: Weathering the Storm - posted by jda on 05/17 05:57PM I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing in a meeting if people were gonna attack me. Being a homegroup member I feel bad I was not there to do something about it. I don't know if I would have taken action or not as I wasn't there. I can tell u it made me feel very bad a few weeks ago when sharing about my kids In the Thursday candle light and some guy with lots of sobriety telling me how he was above loosing it with his kids and how I should do better with mine. It hurt to tell u the truth. Anyway, just wanted u to know I am in ur corner on this....that such direct assaults have no place in Aa.

re: Weathering the Storm - posted by wasteland on 05/19 04:27PM "They don't come for help or to be a part of what we're doing; but instead to tell us to 'get with the times' or that 'it's all the same' or about how much they've learned since AA was started or some other no-account opinion." This is exactly what I run into more often than not. I was recently walked into a meeting that was reading from the big book. The particular part of the book being read pertained to the insanity of alcoholism and how we drink with no thought or memory of the last spree's consequences. While reading I noticed a couple people introduce themselves as addicts and I always find it a bit odd to be in an AA meeting and hearing "addict" introductions. When it was time to share several members spoke about alcohlism and their struggles of being beyond human aid. But then something odd happened.... The addict spoke up... This person spoke about not understanding this concept becasue he always plans to use and how its always about planning to relapse. He was followed by an "alkie and a ..." that also spoke of the need to recognize when you're planning to use again and put a stop to it. He also spoke of only thinking positive thoughts and thats how he stays happy. I am not posting this to make fun of a particular group or person, but it did remind me exactly why I got involved with starting a closed meeting and sticking to the traditions. So I spoke up. I tried to address what was said in the least possible offensive way that I could. "If you're in an AA meeting, disagreeing with the chapter More About Alcohlism, and calling yourself an addict, then why are you here?" to me that is a perfectly logical question but it really didnt sit well with the group. I approached after the meeting and basically asked not to say things about addiction because their meeting is open to everyone that needs help. Apparently I was the crazy guy that was talking non-sense to them and they addressed it. I'm going to stick to what I do and represent AA the way its written and the others can be damned. I hope a drunk never feels out of place at my homegroup the way I felt out of place at many others.

Drugs where not impressive to me - posted by private party on 05/19 08:52PM I have this great discription of the alcoholic in me and I cannot post it cause it will give the addict all the right things to say to fit into what I am.In fact I watched that happen with a member here in Baton Rouge when I Got here .I have seen very few drunks in AA up here Throught is a real alcoholic has to much trouble feeling apart of becouse what most of us share has to do with everything but Alcoholic drinking.(Yes I include me in that too).I am not here to seduce you into AA .I am not here to teach you how to be A Alcoholic.I wait to hear the new comer so i can find my own alcoholism in them.when I see my self in them Then I feel led to observe.when I see my self in a woman it scares me from them.the problem with most Alcoholics like me is we are un aproachable cause we know what we are.we not sure you are therefore you cannot be trusted .a non-alcoholic cannot see theres its simple they have to fabricate it to sound like one of the other meetings or something out of the book.I know my drinking had profound affects on me and it had emotional mental and psychological affects but the ones I hated was the the affect I had on consequinces and driving and hurting people I craved to depend on . See If your An Alcoholic with my big head you need alot to prop that Big Head up with. I see you guys doing it too, thinking its recovery and .....well sorry its not .Nice car pretty woman ,money in the bank,good speech in AA. Yeah I know your all auditioning to be wonderful on stage .Yeah I did that too. Polished pig.Thats what I am yep big phony Balony..Oh Come on let me show you spiritual and act like budda and do th olhm....olhmmm.I bet they would of said love others instead of help others but we get that all scrwed up with Her.Ok lets see since I am not Married I am not recovering cause the girls do not like people like me? What does that have to do with AA or spiritualality.You ever thought I am suppose to be this person that is not so wonderful or pretty .Money darn what does a drunk do when he gets it all together?...Yes!!! He goes on a Parade!!!Glad i thought of that Its Me yes it is I do that . I love Mardi Grass.especially when the Saints DESRVE THE PARADE! But A Addict I don't know ..It might be fair to let them share theres to quit confusing the drunk from the crack head BUT NOT IN A CLOSED AA MEETING .I do not go to Closed AA to hear about f-ing Crack or heroine.I especially am not fooled when you call crack ,heroin and all the other shyt Drunk.Cause speeding is not drunk .being dumb foundedly drunk and stupidly sleering at the mouth is not Highly alert with a highten since of awareness and tweeking .Thats not drunk thats something else and its not me.You know why I do not hang out in Coffee shops cause Coffee is no replacement to alcohol. I hate caffiene highs .Do you know why AA is so unsuccesful with helping Adicts cause we hate fake asses. a real alki knows it ain't the same.the other reason is there Not Drunk .These mothas are super sharp and up with everything all they think they need is rest.and food most of the time yours.My alcoholism kept me dogged down with defects of charector and emotional rampages so deadly drastic some of us commet suicide .but normally when a drunk does that he has been medicated by a doctor or he just gets drunk and maybe does it in a black out! yes alcoholics like me fear the f-ing black out!adicts seem perfect and always land a woman in AA when they get sober cause they where never Drunk .They are on top the game and yes they are blinging for action .But the alcoholic can't smil;e if they wanted to.even smiling is hard for a drunk cause he feels so inadiquit and knows in his heart he is not fooling any one. So I do not care about the spelling or the english and all that if yous bes a alki like me figure it out .and Quit Judging me Cause I am A drunk f-heads

re: Weathering the Storm - posted by ss on 05/21 03:44PM Hi everyone, All the discussions about dealing with the various problems occurring in the groups evoked a lot of thinking on my part about AA traditions, and how to handle these dilemmas. I called the GSO in NYC ( a woman named Mary Anne generously spoke with me - she answers questions from groups around the country) in hopes of hearing about how other groups have handled similar problems. Nothing really groundbreaking, but I found the exchange helpful, and thought I would post some notes from the conversation. Also, the pamphlet "The AA Group" I found to be very helpful on a lot of these matters. Bare with me this is kind of long… About the addict: I asked about her experience talking with other groups regarding how they have handled addicts who show up, specifically, at closed meetings- do home group members escort them out? Publically call them out? First, she unequivocally affirmed AA’s first and third traditions. Even open meetings are for people who think they have a problem with alcohol- not addicts, and that non-alcoholics are welcome to *observe*. She continued that it comes back to group conscience. We have the traditions, but we have the steps too. We can stand up for the singleness of purpose and gently but firmly treat people with love and tolerance. Often other groups do this after a person who ID’s as an addict shares, or by approaching them after a meeting, etc. but that depends on group conscience . Rather then assuming a policing mentality, we can trust that who is there needs to be there, and if they do reveal themselves to be an addict we can simply deal with it according to the group conscience. Instead of ‘exposing’ the addict, and reacting to them with hostility, we can understand they are misguided, and try to be helpful while firmly protecting the traditions, the meeting, the fellowship, and the other alcoholics present who need a real AA meeting and to stay sober. She offered that some meetings have home group members carry a few NA meeting schedules to give to an addict maybe after the meeting, or after that person has shared. Again this depends on group conscience. Sometimes if there is more then one addict, a home group member will quietly take the addicts outside the meeting and talk to them as to not bring an atmosphere of hostility and disruption inside the meeting. She reminded me that these guys have been inundated with treatment lingo and have been taught to believe there simply is no difference between drug addiction and alcoholism. We don’t have to argue this point, but gently but firmly remind them of AA’s traditions. She also said if the home group has a CI/CPC rep that a visit from this person to the treatment center employees may bring more clarity and help alleviate the influx of addicts to closed meetings. Lastly, She referred me to the pamphlet “The AA Group” which states, "The primary purpose of any A.A. group is to carry the A.A. message to alcoholics. Experience with alcohol is one thing all A.A. members have in common. It is misleading to hint or give the impression that A.A. solves other problems or knows what to do about drug addiction." Outbursts/attacks Basically she said again, like discussed above, this was up to the group conscience, reiterating tradition four. We can however, defend the traditions while honoring love and tolerance as our code. Common welfare does come first, and it is up to groups to decide exactly what jeopardizes the group’s ability to carry the message, help its members and other AA’s stay sober, and reach to newcomer. Some groups tolerate all. She has had experience with groups who have specifically written in clauses into the group conscience that prohibit personal attacks, cross talk, cussing, etc.. If the attacks or disruptive behavior arise repeatedly from one individual, often an old timer or a home group member can approach that person and ask if the group can better serve that person, or if there is a problem. If the behavior continues, as a last resort, groups have asked a person to temporarily leave the meeting until the behavior changes- common welfare must come first. She said this is a last resort, and is not equivalent with kicking someone out of a meeting permanently or out of AA, as that is a violation of traditions. Just until the disruptive behavior changes. She also suggested that all of these problems provide a good opportunity to have a discussion of the traditions among home group members, to see how these issues affect the newcomer and our ability to carry the message- remember our primary purpose. She also recommended conducting a group inventory to understand how the group can better function and serve. And to let the loving authority work through this process.

re: Weathering the Storm - posted by private party on 05/21 11:34PM This room is rented for the specific purpose of Alcoholics Anonymous plan of recovery please leave any other plan at the door.Or Do not enter. Outside issues are facilities and enterprises are not welcome in this room. As per our group purpose and its conscience we are open to Alcoholics only.This is not meant to offend any out side bussiness or enterprize we are sure you have closed rooms to honor as well.we just ask you to respect ours.we also recognize there are many other Twelves step programs to attend .

POST REPLY: Please submit your experience, strength and/or hope as it relates to the program of AA below.

[ Signup for the Board | Edit Your Account | Homegroup Member Login | Recover Passwords ]

While we hope that all our guests share their experience as it relates to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, we remind everyone that the contents of these message strings are strictly personal opinions of the authors. When in doubt about the nature of statements made please consult the Big Book and other AA reference materials... our motto: "If its not in the book, it doesn't count." Thank you all for sharing.