The Barflies Message Board

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four horseman - posted by radaj at 05/19 12:03PM The less people tolerated us, the more we withdrew from society, from life itself. As we became subjects of King Alcohol, shivering denizens of his mad realm, the chilling vapor that is loneliness settled down. It thickened, ever becoming blacker. After years of continuous sobriety; how is it i find myself feeling the same hopelessness as stated above? Instead of being a victim of King Alcohol; i'll become Queen Fear. I'm ashamed to talk about "it" in a meeting because i'm not certain as to what kind of a message it sends out?....how would it look?....and so, i sit in silence because i don't think i have a solution or a really cool past experience.....and the fact that i haven't taken a drink in very long time, well that just doesn't seem good enough. I pray for the day when the HP set's me free from self….every day I wonder….is this the day?

re: four horseman - posted by Paul M on 05/19 11:50PM Thanks for bringing us something to think about, and hopefully shed some light on. The word in that paragraph that jumps out at me is "loneliness." ....but let me go back to that. We bured a friend today, an alcoholic who was once my brother in law. He was so terribly misunderstood by the people around him. The priest talked of life ever after and finding peace in the hereafter. Alcoholism kills, and it does it in the meanest way. That in mind, how we look in an AA meeting should never stop us from bringing our problems there - regardless of how long it's been since we drank. At the very least we show the newcomer that it is in the trying that we receive the Grace to stay sober, and we show by example the humility it takes to ask for help. But back to loneliness... do we not all suffer from it? I certainly have had my share. Every alcoholic I know is intimately familiar with it. And how many of us know "the utter inability to form a true partnership with another human being"? The BB tells us that selfishness is our problem and points out that instincts in collision cause all the trouble. Pride conspires against us in our attempts at relationships and we become intolerant, we close the first door as a result and the habit is soon to follow. The eighth step describes a number of lifestyles we live that others find unbearable. Think about these: miserly, irresponsible, callous, cold, irritable, critical, impatient, humorless, neglectful, dominating... Each one indicates some form of selfishness that pervades our entire existence and turns others away from us. Our course is to look for the underlying fear and take that to the HP. Along the way we survey the impact the behavior has on others and ask them and the HP for forgiveness. Naturally, the fourth step gives us much freedom - and I suspect you have done that and enjoyed some release. So I would point you to the seventh step where we begin to see humility, as a way of life, as the real key to the freedom you're looking for. And the eighth and ninth steps to have that freedom realized. I imagine you'd like more than "work the steps." So I'll make you a deal - you tell me a story about how this manifests itself in your life and I'll tell you one about how it does in mine. Then perhaps we can get closer to the heart of the matter. Meanwhile, bear in mind that in our drinking days we thought alcohol was the problem. In sobriety we found out that selfishness was actually the problem and so the problem clearly travels far into our sobriety - which would explain the seeming paradox here. In the end, if we don't cooperate with the HP to solve our selfishness problem we will drink again because that's where hopelessness takes us. Alcoholism would win out! I read once in a letter from Bill that AA is for two things - to help us stop drinking, and to help us rejoin the mainstream of life. But aren't they after all just opposite sides of the same coin - what's the point of not dying if you can't live??

re: four horseman - posted by Gilly on 05/22 08:25AM I find myself often sitting in meetings trying to act like everything is okay when inside I am full of anxiety, afraid to look people in the eye, extremely sensitive, etc. In meetings I try lots of ways to hide 'being screwed up'-like act aloof, in a hurry, and try to look cool. It reminds me of the 'prosaic steel girder' because outward appearances are not inward reality at all. The funny thing is that when I am able to be honest about whom I am and talk about my troubles, amazing things happen. Other people in the meeting respond to the honesty and talk about themselves also. The meeting becomes 'real'! Why, Bill W. talks about drunks being brothers in our defects. The defects are something that we can all relate too because we have all been there. Also, I think it is difficult for drunks to be honest without help from the HP. When someone is honest, the HP immediately comes into play and helps others in turn be honest. Or maybe there are quite of few people who feel that way and they just need a helpful 'push'. Whatever the reason-setting aside my misconception that I have to be perfect because I have been sober a long time or that I can no longer bring my problems to the group or I'm just to cool to do it-always pays helpful dividends. I hope to do it more often also.

re: four horseman - posted by radaj on 05/22 09:31AM Fear will keep me home. Fear will prevent me from living life to the fullest. Fear has shut me out from my family and the people I love. Fear makes me forget that when the HP brings something to me; it will be my dependence on Him that will bring me through. I was reading the Second Step in the 12x12 yesterday and I found a passage that said it all….how our defeats can swirl out of control (tornado) because when it comes to our fears we have one hellava blind spot. This is so true for me. The fact that I continuously fail to see the harm I inflict by my self imposed isolation; how selfish it is…..is my blind spot. My failure to engage in life; my paralysis is what will “make me drink”…..and why not? So now I have some direction and hope. I will pick up my 12x12 and read the seventh and eight step and maybe just maybe put these words into action……it is my hope.

re: four horseman - posted by Paul M on 05/22 10:21AM Yes, fear will keep me home, isolated and out of the life I'd like to live; but lack of power is my dilemma and I don't expect to be able to overcome it without getting to the root cause and taking that to the HP... not really the fear. For instance, as I inspect the ringer at the door I am often overcome with a fear to answer it. "Oh - - -, not them!" Through my mind flash all the things I'd rather do, the tedium of responding to this person, the hands on the clock whirling around and my day coming up empty. I want to leave the door closed and go on with my day. I know that God chooses my friends and that if I start to do it then I'll end up with none - because nobody is perfect. So my prayer is not so general that I be given the strength to open the door. Rather, it is more specific that he show me that my selfish attempts to wrest satisfaction out of life on my own terms (to live my day as I think it should be lived rather than how he would have me live it) are in vain and that He knows better the path to peace. Time is a big sticking point for me - I have so many things I want to do with it that I often struggle to give it away. Very selfish with it. So I answer the door, walk through the fear, and find out that the service to my fellows brings meaning and breadth to my life; and that the things I was so worried about getting done all get done if and when they need to. Service! "Our very lives as ex-problem drinkers depends on our constant thought of others and how we can meet their needs." I'm just saying that I'm afraid only because I'm selfish, so it is the selfishness that I ask the HP for help with and then the fear takes care of itself.

re: four horseman - posted by Sky on 05/22 12:18PM My fear makes me lie and hide things about myself -- never bald-faced lies, but twisted and subtle half-truths, that I somehow in my warped thinking believe sound more "Okay" than the truth. I can get the urge to lie about something as simple as I how I take my coffee or how I like my steak cooked. I find myself wanting to backtrack and say, 'No, I don't REALLY like it black; I don't REALLY like it super rare.' People might say 'there's nothing wrong with black coffee and rare steak." No, there's not. But I've always felt like there was something wrong with ME that could be fixed on the outside, that if i could change how I looked to the world, then everything would be rosy and I'd be happy. And that's completely selfish and self-centered. Do I look okay? Do I sound smart enough? Do I sound calm enough? are my usually first thoughts --- i'm only just now getting to a point where I also ask is it the truth? is it real? My fears rarely drive me to physically isolate myself. My social instinct for wanting friends is just too strong. But when I'm not honest, I can be sitting in a room full of people and feel just as isolated as if I was in the back of the closet under a pile of coats. And it's often a battle, but when I am able to be honest or real whether it's in a meeting or with friends, I, too am amazed at how people respond & at how free I can feel. Even if it's short-lived, it gives me hope that one day forgetting my self might some day be second nature to me.

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While we hope that all our guests share their experience as it relates to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, we remind everyone that the contents of these message strings are strictly personal opinions of the authors. When in doubt about the nature of statements made please consult the Big Book and other AA reference materials... our motto: "If its not in the book, it doesn't count." Thank you all for sharing.