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Ugliness Within - posted by kah at 12/10 09:14AM I have a sister involved in a situation that I have been gravely concerned about for a couple of months now. This would be the same situation I referred to yesterday that had brought out some envy in me a few weeks ago. That has passed. It is now like watching for a train wreck about to happen. My concerns are real and valid and quite disturbing, not just to me, but to my parents, a few other siblings (there are 5 girls and 1 boy)and a couple of very close family friends. This is also one of those very rare situations where to some degree it is my business. Enough said. Hence my dilemna. My family, as much as I love them, considers involvement in each others' lives and gossip about each other to be a contact sport. We love each other deeply, but there is certainly some sibling rivalry in the mix. We take dysfunctional to a whole new level. As such, I have tried, and succeeded for the most part in past years, to just not participate in the conversations about each other, etc. Until now. I am having a helluva time exercising any restraint here at all. I have had several oppurtunites to bow out of a conversation about this sibling situation (it is all that is being talked about in my family right now), and have tried really hard to at least not instigate and stir the pot. Another sport in my family. I am failing miserably. There is still this perverse thing in me that wants to yell "see, she is not perfect, I AM THE GOOD ONE!" This particular sibling has shone light a bright star most of her life, which needless to say has not been the case with my star. Yet, now the shoe is on the other foot. There is ample oppurtunity for me to point out her faults and stand back and gloat while I look all virtuous and crap for not making the same decisions she is making, which is only by the Grace of God. I really have tried to walk away from most of it, yet this morning oppurtunity presented itself for me to take a shot about her situation and make myself look better and I took it. I feel so twisted on the inside. I love this sister more than any of the others. We have always been joined at the hip and there is alot of hurt and anger right now on my end. I do not want to make me look better at her expense. Kind of like what Gilly was talking about yesterday, I want to be concerned for her without this hideous, vengeful, bitch on the inside chomping at the bit to take a shot. Over the years, my defects have become more subtle, not quite as glaring as they once were. I abhor gossip and generally think worse of the person doing the gossiping than the one being gossiped about. And yet, I am participating in it almost daily about this situation with my other siblings and mother, then try to make it seem like it is purely out of concern knowing there is this part of me screaming "gothca" on the inside. I know I cant make my defects go away. I am praying about this constantly, have talked to a couple of close friends in AA about it and just cant seem to shake the ugliness within. Experience, suggestions? I dont want to be this way, but more than that I dont want to hurt my sister or anyone else along the way.

re: Ugliness Within - posted by jules on 12/10 09:32AM I've been doing it too with a family member. I hate it and feel dirty. I pray about it here and there, but need more prayer i think. I genuinely want this person to be happy but their life is a constant train wreck. When I used to talk to my sponsor about a similar situation, she would ask if I thought I was better than them. Unfortunately as ugly as it was, I did feel that way deep down. I just didn't know how twisted my pride was. What I thought was "concern" was just me always feeling like I make better decisions. That's B.S. The gossip has been hard for me in this area simply because there seems to be a gray area when "discussing" and "being concerned" about someone in the family. I'm not sure why, but it's still gossip and none of my bees wax. (yes, I said that) My defects have been more subtle over the years too. Devious little bastards that won't go away. I will pray for you and your family in exchange for your prayers too. That's right, only if you pray for mine too:) Love you. I can't help but think of my brother and all his mistakes. It was a running joke that he made me look better and better all the time to my mother. I got to the point where it just made me sad for him. I wish I could be there for him every time he fell. He lives here and there and I can't keep up. Maybe you could cut the sibling some slack even though it's hard to watch unfold. Then just being there when or if she falls, I think that's all we can do, besides the whole "looking at our defects" part.

Ugliness Within - posted by gilly on 12/10 09:59AM My family is just like yours. We have all had shining and difficult moments. It seems like when they happen, I instinctively seize the opportunity to compare myself to them. Usually, the result is that I feel like more of a failure. It funny the things that I have compared to them....the list is long. Sometimes it does make me feel dark on the inside. I have wished some terrible burdens on family and friends over the years. Thank God that I don't have any power to make them a reality becuase I always regret think those things. I am sure that I am judged by my actions, not my thoughts. About the gossip thing....I have tried for along time to stay away from it. Sometimes, I even feel better than those who participate (which also screws up my insides). The degree that I engage depends on my spirituality. When I have an active relationship with HP, it doesn't bother my to stay away. When I'm not siritually fit, I am scared-so I gossip. It's that simple for me. Good luck and thanks for the post!

re: Ugliness Within - posted by Norma Desmond on 12/10 10:27AM Hi KAH, There are a few co-workers I am constantly drawn into gossiping about with my boss. He can't accept his powerlessness over them, so he talks about them behind their backs in order to regain some power. I think the ugliness of my self-righteousness is more repulsive than whatever sketchy behavior I'm gossiping about. What makes it especially deadly is that I'm cutting myself off from the Spirit and can't see it because I'm so full of myself. However, the damage shows up in my random feelings of insecurity, inferiority and depression. God hasn't removed this defect--he lets me suffer terribly whenever I practice it. I guess that's His way of encouraging me to find the willingness to change the subject. Repeatedly. How 'bout them Saints? Norma

re: Ugliness Within - posted by Paul M on 12/10 11:50AM In our meeting we encourage frightened newcomers to tell us their darkest secrets and expose themselves to us. We want to help and we can't do it well if they don't tell us the whole story. A lot of them don't talk for fear it would produce "untold grief (...) scandalous gossip, laughter at the expense of other people, and a tendency to take advantage of intimate information." (pg 125) How relieved they are to find our response is typically "I did that crap too!" We dig down deep to match our instincts with theirs and produce a story of perversion and consequence attributing all to some various form of self interest or sufficiency. And in the end they are either elated or comforted to know that they are not alone. "We do talk about each other a great deal, but we almost invariably temper such talk by a spirit of love and tolerance." (same page fool) And, I would add, a spirit of unity and the promotion of understanding. We are brothers in our defects and as a community we need to discuss things so that we can understand, come together, and grow together. So my suggestion is to go ahead and talk, but about yourself. Match your sins to your sisters so that the rest of your family might better understand. Your 4th step showed you how your selfishness works to create these unsatisfying circumstances and you can lead your family to patience and compassion by exposing yourself rather than assassinating your sibling's character... which of course is selfish and ultimately leads to your own unhappiness.

re: Ugliness Within - posted by sky on 12/10 06:12PM My sister and I have had a running joke for years..."It was funny when it was you..." It started after my (second) husband left me when our dad said, said, "Why can't either of these girls keep a man?" and my mother actually answered him, saying, "I don't know. Don't blame me." I was crying and bitching to my sister saying, 'Can you BELIEVE he said that to me???" She was on husband number 3 by then and said, "Sonya, he's been saying that to ME for years." I stopped and realized it was true and said, 'Well, yeah, it was funny when it was you." We laughed about it at the time, but it was true, I had laughed right along when it wasn't me getting left or feeling desperate to leave. I understand how painful the sibling jealousy can be...I get green with envy when I see my sister with my 10-year-old niece. I love this child and I wish she was mine. I feel guilty and jealous to the point that I sometimes want to isolate myself from them because it feels humiliating to want something I can't seem to have...On a good day, I believe that the Higher Power knows what he's doing and that my niece has the right mother and the right aunt, but not every day is good. When I get overrun with the hateful ugliness that judges everybody it goes back to feeling like somebody's getting something that I haven't got. And it sets off all these fears that boil down to "Am I ever going to have a family of my own or will I always be the third (or fifth) wheel auntie at the dinner table? And fear makes me mean. Period. I am a princess and not a nice, benevolent one who is kind to her people. I mock, I look for people's weaknesses, I judge people and I frequently talk about people, both behind their backs and to their faces. I really don't discriminate when I'm on a roll. The only thing I can say in my defense is that I'm not as bad as I used to be. I don't know that it's my job to enlighten my family about any situation but AA's given me the desire to want to bring peace to my family when I can... My progress is that I can see it now... Don't give up... sky

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While we hope that all our guests share their experience as it relates to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, we remind everyone that the contents of these message strings are strictly personal opinions of the authors. When in doubt about the nature of statements made please consult the Big Book and other AA reference materials... our motto: "If its not in the book, it doesn't count." Thank you all for sharing.